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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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 Issues with Insteon.exe |
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Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone is using X10 devices with a Powerlinc? I am able to communicate with my Powerlinc. I noticed that if I add/create an 'x10' device in vCrib.exe, it won't go into Insteon.exe as a device. I have to create an 'Insteon' device in vCrib for it to show up in Insteon.exe.
I have a couple x10 devices that I want to test out. One is a powerhorn, and the other is a chime.
I tried creating an Insteon Relay for the x10 chime to see if that would work. After creating the device in vCrib, I can see it in the Insteon.exe. I click the ON button and it says the send FAILED. Now, I'm not sure if the problem is how I have everything setup, or if it's because I don't have a phase coupler and the signal isn't getting to the chime. I just don't know.
I have an extension cord running to a different room (away from computers, etc). Plugged into the extension cord is the Powerlinc. In the other outlet jack in the same outlet I have the Chime plugged in. I thought this would work. Basically the outlet has two jacks. The PLC is plugged into one of them, and the chime right next to it. I figured that was a given to be on the same phase, and close together to not have the signal blocked by anything.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has gotten this to run with cheap x10 devices. It seems like that may be the problem. It doesn't want to import x10 devices into Insteon.exe
Maybe if I get time later, I'll test out a socket rocket and see if that works (I see there's an option for x10 dimmer in vCrib). I don't know. I figured the chime and powerhorn would be the 'x10 relay' because they're either on or off??
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:35 am |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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Oh, and the LED flashes on the PLC when I click the ON button. The PLC comm is working fine. It's either 1. using x10 devices is not allowed, or 2. The PLC command isn't reaching the x10 device on the powerline.
How come when I set the device to either an x10 relay or Insteon relay, the 4 commands are ON, OFF, BRIGHT, DIM. Wouldn't a relay only have an ON and OFF?
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:50 am |
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Humanzee
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 519
Location: Seattle, WA |
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I'm not caught up on how far you got with your PLC and getting the SDM installed. Sometimes for X10 stuff you need to send the command a few times. When I build an action that includes an X10 device, I usually add the commands for it a couple of times, I.e. Lamp OFF, Lamp OFF, Lamp OFF. It helps, but sometimes x10 is just flaky. You could try plugging in an x10 lamp module right into the pass through port on your PLC. If you can't get it to work there, there must be something going on with your PLC configuration. There should be a Device Type called insteon PLC from the list, to add it as an object.
I believe you can go into the device types list and change the defaults for your Relay etc. uncheck the box's for DIM and BRIGHT. They shouldn't apply to ON/OFF style devices.
_________________
vCrib Tester #1, Forum moderator, using INSTEON devices, X10 sensors and remotes via W800RF, All doors are wired with contact closures.
vCrib Wiki |
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:36 pm |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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I'm not caught up on how far you got with your PLC and getting the SDM installed. Sometimes for X10 stuff you need to send the command a few times. When I build an action that includes an X10 device, I usually add the commands for it a couple of times, I.e. Lamp OFF, Lamp OFF, Lamp OFF. It helps, but sometimes x10 is just flaky. You could try plugging in an x10 lamp module right into the pass through port on your PLC. If you can't get it to work there, there must be something going on with your PLC configuration. There should be a Device Type called insteon PLC from the list, to add it as an object.
I believe you can go into the device types list and change the defaults for your Relay etc. uncheck the box's for DIM and BRIGHT. They shouldn't apply to ON/OFF style devices. |
Hey Tod, can you give me some insight as to your setup?
Specifically:
1. What kind of x10 devices are you using?
2. Are you using devices that are already in vCrib (ie...x10 relay, x10 dimmer), or are you using devices that are not (chime, powerhorn, etc). I guess I can create my own device type (x10 Chime). I didn't think of doing that...
3. Are you using an Insteon PLC to interact with your x10 devices, or are you using a cm15a or something?
4. Did you have to do any tweaking to get your x10 devices to show in the Insteon app? My issue is that any objects that are under x10 type don't show in Insteon.exe. I have to add them as Insteon type objects and then they show in Insteon.exe. I assume this is the problem. I would think that the PLC sending an Insteon command is different that the PLC sending an X10 command. Does the device type HAVE to be x10 in the Insteon.exe? That's my problem, I can't get any x10 devices to show, only Insteon ones.
5. What do you do with the Insteon PLC device/object? I saw it and created it, but what do I do with it. Would I just use that to set up events?
Currently I'm just trying to see if I can get my x10 stuff to trigger via the PLC. Nothing more. I'm not interested in setting up commands, or events, or anything.
I HAD to add my x10 chime as an Insteon Relay (or any other Insteon device type) to get it to show in the Insteon.exe app. I then clicked the ON button with my chime selected in the Insteon.exe program. I can see in the logs that it sent the ON, 100%, A6 (A6 is the code set on the Chime) command but it FAILED.
Is above a cheap and easy way to test communication with an x10 device and the PLC, or do I need to do something more fancy? I figured I should be able to turn stuff ON or OFF right within the Insteon.exe
I'm kind of perplexed by this. I wouldn't mind calling Vaughn to talk to him in person about it, but I think if we can talk it out on the forums it will help a lot of others with similar problems. I may try downloading some other apps out there to see if I can get the chime to work with them, just to make sure it works. I can rule out a lot of problems if I actually know the PLC can communicate with the chime.
If you have time, can you do a quick write up on how to get up and running? ie.. add the x10 device. Add the PLC device. Open Insteon.exe and bring in available devices from vCrib. Select device on list and click ON. Device should respond.
Something like that with a quick run down on what to do. I really think I'm doing everything correctly, because when I click the ON button the PLC's led flashes. So maybe it's just an issue with the command getting to my chime. Hmm....Maybe I'll try sending ON's a few times like you said and see if that works
Last edited by SnyperBob on Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:15 pm |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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You could try plugging in an x10 lamp module right into the pass through port on your PLC. |
I'll try that out in the morning and set it up as a dimmer. I'll let you know how that works.
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:17 pm |
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Humanzee
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 519
Location: Seattle, WA |
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Yes, I am using the Insteon PLC to do my x10 transmitting in vCrib. There is nothing else that can interface at the moment. (Feb 2008) Basically each application that supports vCrib has its own process, this way you can determine which supporting application will handle a particular command. The Insteon application handles X10 and Insteon, however, X10 devices are not Insteon compliant. So forget everything you've done so far about thinking you need to add X10 devices in the Insteon application. If you have no other insteon devices than the PLC the extra stuff in the insteon application will mean and do nothing for you. All you should be interested in there is if it and the Smart Home Device Manger are running and if some things appear in the insteon log there.
1.) Make sure you have a line in your vcrib.ini file that says something like.
INSTEON = Insteon PLC Main
This will add the insteon process to the available processes in your settings tab. It should already be there.
2.) Clear out all the devices that you have added, x10 and insteon. Adding X10 devices and selecting a insteon type will make the insteon module try to send a command with an incomplete address. Insteon addresses are in 6 character Hex, 00.E3.F7 , an X10 address like A1 is incomplete for insteon, though you can use an x10 address in the secondary address field for an insteon device.
3.) Add your PLC as a device object with type "Insteon Power Linc Controller" If you check the device types list, it should appear as a sensor with Insteon checked. From this point on you do nothing with this object. It is just a means for holding the address for linking between insteon devices at a later date.
4.) For say an x10 lamp module. Check the Device Type X10 Dimmer and make sure, for this type, that X10 only is checked. Make sure that ON/OFF and Dimmable are checked. Make sure you have appropriate labels for the ON OFF DIM BRIGHT. Now select the process you want to handle commands for this device type. SELECT "Insteon PLC Main" as per 1.) above. Now any X10 device that you add with this type should automatically use the "Insteon PLC Main" process to execute your command. The Insteon.exe application will look for any commands assigned to it in the queue, X10 or Insteon, and remove them once processed.
5.) Now, add an x10 device object, lets say a dimmer per 4.) above. Give it a name, A type (X10 Dimmer), the address of your module (A1) etc, A Location and hit add.
6.) Go to the commands tab and verify that the commands: Your_Device_Name ON, Your_Device_Name OFF, Your_Device_Name DIM, Your_Device_Name BRIGHT were added where ON, OFF, DIM, BRIGHT = the labels you chose on the Device Types menu. Now verify that the Process for each of these commands is equal to the "Insteon PLC Main" per the Device Type list you checked earlier.
7.) For testing, make sure your X10 device is plugged into the same phase of power and do a test by executing one of the commands in step 6. Check to see that the insteon Application log has recorded this activity: HH:MM:SS - SND > Your_Device_Name ON 100% (A1,ON) etc. The light on the PLC will likely flash three times quickly.
That should be it really. I had the benefit of 1 on 1 support in the beginning, and that was over a year ago. I have taken all my knowledge for granted, so your help with the Wiki is greatly appreciated. I've been intending to expand on the 101 sticky but have not had the time. I intend on adding a Device specific thread to talk about each kind of device, the application which runs it and how to configure them. But that may be best for the wiki or an eventual manual etc.
To answer your other question, I mainly have insteon Switchlinc Dimmers in my home for lighting, We also have a few RelayLinc's and a few LampLinc's. As far as X10 I only have what I had pre vCrib. I got some of the starter packs back in 1999 when X10.com was giving them away. So some lamp modules and appliance modules. I also have some palm pads and key pads to do various things. Sensor wise, I have many many ms16a's. I tried to buy a whole mess of 13a's because I wanted white, but they sent me 14a's because they are out of stock. (might send them back) A whole stack of DS10a's and thats about it. I use the lamp modules and appliance modules for things like holiday lights, and accents in areas we do not frequent. I just find that they are not 100 percent reliable so I use them in out of the way places or areas of limited use.
I've added custom device types for X10 things which might apply to your siren. For instance. The MS16a's have both a photo cell and a motion sensor in them. So I added two new device types. "X10 Motion Sensor" and "X10 Photocell". Essentially these send the same signal as any regular ON/OFF button, so the devices are set up as sensors with ON/OFF as their only capability. The interesting part is that you can then change the labels to suit the sensor for more meaningful use in vCrib.
For the Motion Sensor Device Type I have added an ON label of "Detected" and an OFF label of "Has Stopped"
For the Photocell Device Type I have added an ON label of "Senses Darkness" and an OFF label of "Senses Light"
Since I name my device objects logically by their type I.e. "Kitchen Motion", "Kitchen Photocell" I get meaningful events to trigger off of such as. "Kitchen Motion Detected", "Kitchen Motion Has Stopped", "Kitchen Photocell Senses Darkness", "Kitchen Photocell Senses Light" instead of "Kitchen Motion ON" etc.
You can do the same with your siren, its likely just an ON/OFF device so you could set it up the same as above but just make sure that the sensor checkbox is not checked. Select a label for ON such as "ACTIVATED" and OFF like "IS SILENT" etc. Otherwise selecting "X10 Relay" should work exactly the same. You just want to send it an ON or OFF command. I don't know if those sirens use a security address though.
_________________
vCrib Tester #1, Forum moderator, using INSTEON devices, X10 sensors and remotes via W800RF, All doors are wired with contact closures.
vCrib Wiki |
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| Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:34 am |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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Very great information! So I was pretty much dead in the water trying to set the chime up as an Insteon device. Lol....after I thought about it I figured as much.
Thank you though, I really appreciate it. I'll work on this later today and get back to you.
Have you ever heard of 'creating a short loop'. I read somewhere that a quick and dirty way to test would be to plug the PLC and chime into a power strip. The short loop would be just the transmission going to anything plugged into that power strip. Eh, I dunno if it works, but I thought it was interesting.
Thanks man
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| Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:40 am |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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That should be it really. I had the benefit of 1 on 1 support in the beginning, and that was over a year ago. I have taken all my knowledge for granted, so your help with the Wiki is greatly appreciated. I've been intending to expand on the 101 sticky but have not had the time. I intend on adding a Device specific thread to talk about each kind of device, the application which runs it and how to configure them. But that may be best for the wiki or an eventual manual etc.
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I hear you. After you've been using a product for a long time, you get used to work arounds, issues or set something up and forget about it.
That's one main reason why I am trying to write wiki docs as I go, so I can write up exactly all the info I needed to get up and running, because the next person is going to have the same exact questions.
As long as I can grasp how to do something, I'll put it in writing. I have a lot of down time at my job, so I usually spend some time each day working on the wiki or whatever. I really appreciate all of the help I've been given. I'm surprised more interested people haven't started flooding the site. Ah well, I guess it gives me time to get more info into the wiki and understand everything on my own (along with time to BUY all the hardware  )
This hobby isn't cheap, but it's definately fun!
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| Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:48 am |
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SnyperBob
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Illinois |
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Wow, that was really easy! It works!!! Thanks Humanzee, I really appreciate it. I was definately making this way harder than I needed to.
I note to others, if you are using a power horn, you need to hit execute like 20 times really fast to get it working. I had to do some reading to find that out, but when this thing fired I thought my head was going to explode!
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| Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:52 am |
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Humanzee
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 519
Location: Seattle, WA |
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Keep in mind that power strips can filter out x10 signals also. I have my PLC plugged directly into the wall even though the PC has its own UPS right next to it.
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note to others, if you are using a power horn, you need to hit execute like 20 times really fast to get it working. I had to do some reading to find that out, |
To get your powerhorn to work in vcrib you can set up an action with the "PowerHorn ON" command listed 20 times or what ever is required. Commands are removed from the Queue as fast as they are processed, so theoretically this should work for you.
On the receiving end, I think there is a limit on repeated commands in the W800RF where signals held ON or repeated within 1 second or something are ignored. Vaughn will have to double check that, I know I had a problem with that as I wanted to use the same button on my remote to incrementally increase the brightness of a lamp. I have to wait a bit longer than I'd like before it will respond again, or toggle pressing two different buttons so that individual commands are not repeated sequentially.
_________________
vCrib Tester #1, Forum moderator, using INSTEON devices, X10 sensors and remotes via W800RF, All doors are wired with contact closures.
vCrib Wiki |
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| Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:34 pm |
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